FFM and $-Equivalent

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > [snip] > > > My theory is that since the > > > FFM tickets are not bringing in any revenue for the airlines, > >    You need to be more specific here.  The SALE of FFM is a > > revenue source for the airlines.  The redemption of FFM > > on THEIR flights is a cost. > True.  I thought it was pretty clear in my context since I was > REDEEMING my CO FFMs. >     Yes, but your theory was based upon the SALE of FFM.  There > is revenue there and they do have an incentive in selling FFM.

No, go back read my original post again. I was REDEEMING my CO FFM for a San Juan ticket.  CO put me on a First Class Delta flight.  That was where I advanced my theory: RF>  My theory is that since the FFM tickets are not bringing in RF>  any revenue for the airlines, CO would put me on its RF>  partnership flights and save its own seats to RF>  sell for CA$H Selling the seat I would have taken on a CO flight for $$$ RF>  or at INFLATED FFM charges. at inflated charges meant charging the coach seat for 70K CO FFM (which I have), or 120K CO FFM (which I also have) for a CO First Class seat, whereas Delta charged me only 60K CO FFMs for their First Class seat. Nothing was said about CO selling FFMs, which of course is a profitable venture for them, but not so profitable that CO would sell anyone an unlimited number of their FFM at the nominal price of $20 per 1000 FFM. > [snip) > The FFM redemption side > is going to be extremely dependent upon where you are going > and what the total available stock is for that route.  Partners > may have a much larger available stock on certain routes.

While the above is probably true, it doesn't negate my theory as to why CO is more eager to apply my FFM for a FREE ticket in a Partner airline's flight rather than one of its own. -- Bob.

Response:

> > [snip] > > My theory is that since the > > FFM tickets are not bringing in any revenue for the airlines, >    You need to be more specific here.  The SALE of FFM is a > revenue source for the airlines.  The redemption of FFM > on THEIR flights is a cost. > True.  I thought it was pretty clear in my context since I was > REDEEMING my CO FFMs.

    Yes, but your theory was based upon the SALE of FFM.  There is revenue there and they do have an incentive in selling FFM. [snip] >     There is no doubt for the POTENTIAL here.  However, predominately > I suspect it would be difficult to particularly impliment.  Seats > are so rare, the opportunity for the agents to pick one airline > over the other is probably limited. > It may have been just coincidental, but I have observed that on > several different occasions when I was redeeming my CO FFMs, whether > it was for domestic (USA) flights or international locations wheretick > CO serves, the agents seem more eager to put me on partners’ > flights rather than CO’s.  On the other hand, when I was purchasing > my ticket … say from LAX to ATL, they seem eager to get me on > CO flights, even if they have to route it through Houston, Memphis, > Cleveland, perhaps even Timbuktu or Timbucktu

(http://www.timbuktu.tk/) > when a direct Delta flight was available.  :-) > YMMV.

     I would suspect that there were agreements wrt these things when the alliances were formed.  I can believe on the sale side, there is a bias towards selling their own stock.  But be careful here because they may only have access to a certain portion of the total available seats on a partner, whereas on their own the may have a much larger availability.  The FFM redemption side is going to be extremely dependent upon where you are going and what the total available stock is for that route.  Partners may have a much larger available stock on certain routes.

Response:

> [snip] > My theory is that since the > FFM tickets are not bringing in any revenue for the airlines, >    You need to be more specific here.  The SALE of FFM is a > revenue source for the airlines.  The redemption of FFM > on THEIR flights is a cost.

True.  I thought it was pretty clear in my context since I was REDEEMING my CO FFMs. > CO would put me on its partnership flights and save its own seats to > sell for CA$H or at INFLATED FFM charges. > [snip] >     There is no doubt for the POTENTIAL here.  However, predominately > I suspect it would be difficult to particularly impliment.  Seats > are so rare, the opportunity for the agents to pick one airline > over the other is probably limited.

It may have been just coincidental, but I have observed that on several different occasions when I was redeeming my CO FFMs, whether it was for domestic (USA) flights or international locations wheretick CO serves, the agents seem more eager to put me on partners’ flights rather than CO’s.  On the other hand, when I was purchasing my ticket … say from LAX to ATL, they seem eager to get me on CO flights, even if they have to route it through Houston, Memphis, Cleveland, perhaps even Timbuktu or Timbucktu (http://www.timbuktu.tk/) when a direct Delta flight was available.  :-) YMMV. — Bob.

Response:

[snip] > My theory is that since the > FFM tickets are not bringing in any revenue for the airlines,

   You need to be more specific here.  The SALE of FFM is a revenue source for the airlines.  The redemption of FFM on THEIR flights is a cost. > CO would put me on its partnership flights and save its own seats to > sell for CA$H or at INFLATED FFM charges.

[snip]     There is no doubt for the POTENTIAL here.  However, predominately I suspect it would be difficult to particularly impliment.  Seats are so rare, the opportunity for the agents to pick one airline over the other is probably limited.

Response:

What prompted this post was my use of CO Frequent Flyer Miles (FFM) to book a roundtrip to San Juan, PR on cruise ship Sundays. For several years until now, I had always used the approx. equivalent of $20 USD for each 1000 FFM, partly because that’s what CO (and some other airlines) would charge if you have to buy some FFMs to make up the shortage of miles you have for "free" tickets. So, I would use FFMs only on rare occasions where the cash-purchase price of tickets exceeded $500 for domestic, Caribbean, or Canadian flights (on the old 25,000 FFM for coach, now 35,000), and use the miles only for upgrading coach to First or BusinessFirst on international flights.  A non-negligible reason for this ad-hoc rule of mine is that I had to PURCHASE enough tickets to qualify for Platinum (75K miles minimum, each year). Thus, I have accumulated well over a million unused FFMs on CO.  :) So much for the background to this post, about the DEVALUATION of FFMs, on CO at least, and related exchanges. On the dates I needed, the roundtrip coach fares to San Juan exceeded $700, so my ad-hoc rule kicked in.  Unfortunately, seats are available only for 70,000 FFMs on coach or 120,000 FFM in First for those dates, on Continental flights. My accumulation of FFMs convinced me to break my own rule and use 70K miles of the million for coach, rather than 120K for First, just to fly to San Juan, when 120K is sufficient to fly Business First to Hong Kong (15 hr non-stop from EWR alone). It wasn’t until I was actually booking the flight yesterday that the CO Platinum agent said she could get me a First Class roundtrip to San Juan on my dates for 60K CO FFMs, on Delta direct flights from ATL, instead of 70K CO FFMs for coach on CO, which has to stop at either IAH or EWR. Needless to say, I took the Delta Freebie option. So, my first conclusion is that CO FFMs have been greatly devaluated, for flying Continental! My corollary observation was when I try to use FFMs to book flights, CO agents always seem to be eager to put me on its PARTNER’S free flights (such as Delta or Northwest).  My theory is that since the FFM tickets are not bringing in any revenue for the airlines, CO would put me on its partnership flights and save its own seats to sell for CA$H or at INFLATED FFM charges. Besides the benefit of CO’s Platinum that I still almost always get upgraded to First on the cheapest coach fares on CO, I found this rarely used perk that Platinum members can CHANGE FFM tickets or cancel, anytime up to flight date, at no charge, and have the FFMs re-deposited back to the FFM account!  Gold and Silver Elite members are charged $25 for such changes and non-Elite OnePass members are charged $50. I thought I would share these factoids with readers in rec.travel.air and rec.travel.cruises who may not be aware of the FFM $-Equivalents or other monkey-business apparently associated with them. — Bob.

Response:

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